And at times in the late '90s and 2000s the Sydney singer-songwriter was achieving that goal. Lee's major-label albums Breathing Tornadoes (1998), Hey You. Yes You (2002) and Awake Is The New Sleep (2005) were alternative hits and tracks like Catch My Disease, We're All In This Together and Cigarettes Will Kill You crossed over to commercial radio.

These days the 45-year-old is happier releasing music, podcasts and art through his label Weirder Together, which he launched with his wife and US actress, Ione Skye, last year.

Lee and Skye have also launched a "substack" component where subscribers pay $5 per month to receive exclusive content. Lee sees servicing a niche market as the future of the music industry.

"When I was a kid in the '80s and through to the '90s you assumed the goal was to have the masses like and understand what you were doing," Lee said.

"On the whole - except for three or four artists like your Taylor Swifts and Ed Sheerans - everyone else is communicating with their own micro community.

"It takes a while to un-brainwash yourself from the goal of walking into an ice cream shop and having Triple M play you."

In January Weirder Together released, Boys Night, the debut music single from Newcastle comedian Cameron James after he befriended Lee during the pandemic.

Lee said Weirder Together's established micro community meant James's comedy songs already had an audience.

"That's our strength," Lee said. "When we talk to an artist about putting out their music or podcast or helping them produce something, part of what they're getting is the direct line of communication that we have with a sympathetic audience that is eccentric."

Many music industry figures have cited the recent collapse of major music festivals like Splendour In The Grass and Groovin' The Moo as examples of the mainstream's disruption in the era of streaming.

Those same industry figures are predicting smaller niche music festivals are the future.

That would likely include the Hunter Valley's own Gum Ball, which has established its own musical community and identity over the past 20 years.

It an experience that also appealed to Lee as he prepares to release his new single, Lovers, on April 19.

"Life is more interesting when you don't stick to exactly the same plan, exactly the same venues and exactly the same routine," Lee said. "Interesting offers come in and I generally entertain them."

Lee wrote Lovers to explore how the "old fairytale of romance" has been replaced by the modern reality that our partners often "come with history and sometimes with kids or ex-marriages", and that's something to be celebrated.

Lovers is the first track taken from Lee's forthcoming album This One's For the Old Headz, due out later this year.

The album was recorded live in three days with drummer Jon Wurster (Mountain Goats) and Jason Narducy (Bob Mould Band, Superchunk).

"It's harmonies and loud guitars, it's like an indie-rock record," he said.

Ben Lee plays under cover at Dashville on Friday with Kingsley James and The Tryouts. Tickets are limited.